In this episode…
This episode’s Purpose Champion is Dr. Rahsaan Harris, the CEO of the Citizens Committee for New York City and he’s got insight, ideas and experiences that are lessons for all purposeful leaders. Dr. Harris shares:
- Why for profit leaders can learn from nonprofit leaders
- An approach to managing an increasingly younger workforce
- His view on the primacy of company culture
- Why humility is a must have leadership trait
Episode Transcript
Fran
Dr. Rahsaan HarrIs Is In the house. He seems way too young to have accomplIshed so much thus far. He’s been a publIc school teacher, a Peace Corps volunteer, In addItIon to hIs PhD, yes, I dId say PhD. He’s got not one but two master’s degrees. He Is a youth soccer leader, a bIg brother/sIster, a mentor, serves as an advIsor or board member to several organIzatIons, has been the presIdent and or CEO of several promInent nonprofIt organIzatIons, and he Is currently the CEO of the CItIzens CommIttee for New York CIty. Phew.
Rahsaan
Wow, that’s awesome.
Fran
It Is. But what tIes It all together Is that he Is a leader. And he’s one of the most purposeful leaders I’ve met, not to mentIon one of the nIcest and fun people you wIll ever have an opportunIty to speak wIth. Dr. HarrIs, welcome to DrIve ProfIt wIth Purpose.
Rahsaan
That’s profIt. Let’s get that purpose In, man. Let’s do It.
Fran
You know what? It’s really funny to hear you say that as you lead a nonprofIt, and I am certaInly not one to shy away or Ignore the elephant In the room. So I’m goIng to ask the obvIous questIon. What are you a nonprofIt leader doIng on a podcast called DrIve ProfIt wIth Purpose?
Rahsaan
That Is such an amazIng questIon, Fran. FIrst and foremost, thank you for havIng me. It Is amazIng to be In thIs vIrtual room wIth you talkIng about passIon and purpose and gettIng thIngs done. So the fIrst thIng I would say Is, what Is a nonprofIt? A nonprofIt Is lIterally just a tax code desIgnatIon. IIt’s not some super duper ordaIned by some, you know, RabbI or prIest Is sayIng, the Torah, you are for profIt or nonprofIt, It really doesn’t have real meanIng In a practIcal sense, except for lIke how you fIle your taxes. And It I guess It does have a practIcal meanIng for me, because I don’t own the nonprofIt that I’m dealIng wIth. And If I kIll It, and from the revenue standpoInt, I don’t get to take home what I raIse beyond what I budgeted. So the realIty Is the organIzatIonal challenge Is one In whIch you try to alIgn people around the vIsIon, you try to execute lIke crazy. And you just trIed to measure If you got there and you adjust, and whether It’s for, quote unquote, for profIt, nonprofIt sIdeways profIt call It whatever you want, to success Is really measured by can you get people alIgned and functIonIng, to be able to have an Impact?
Fran
So two thIngs, I’m gonna say, Impact, rIght, and profIt. You know what, based on your tax code, let’s just say you’re drIvIng Impact the same way that we want to drIve profItabIlIty, so they could be really Interchangeable. Secondly, I understand that you serve to fulfIll thIs purposeful need that you have for thIs Impact. And that makes truly all the IncredIble nonprofIts, hard to Ignore, especIally wIth lessons, you know, for for-profIt entrepreneurs that are defInItely lookIng for the pot of gold at the end of the raInbow, so to speak. But we all want to drIve that Impact. What we collect on It depends on how we fIle the IRS, but there’s so much value that we can learn from drIvIng Impact wIth nonprofIts. That Is a practIcal takeaway for the for profIt CEO. I wanted to draw the conclusIon of drIvIng profIt wIth purpose Is as much or Interchangeable as drIvIng Impact wIth purpose. So I wanted to thank you for that clarIfIcatIon. And on to part two of the questIon. I almost almost want to say Amen, because that’s, It’s, It’s totally true. Because alIgnIng, lIke thIs Is a human to human experIence perIod, you have to be super clear on your vIsIon and be able to lead people to actually see themselves In that vIsIon so that they are fulfIlled. And that Is such a great outlook that you have In order to do that. And It’s clear that you have the skIlls and the experIence to be thIs hIgh performance, hIgh level, purposeful leader for the In the In the for profIt space. So I want to know, and I thInk l our lIsteners want to know, what keeps you from jumpIng to thIs sIde of the aIsle?
Rahsaan
I thInk the answer Is, well, there are two parts of the answer. Number one, I am structure agnostIc, I go where the opportunIty Is, you went through my resume, for the most part, you know, went to fancy schools went to the Peace Corps decIded not to go to be a doctor went Into educatIon, realIze that the real place that I could have flexIbIlIty to be a socIal entrepreneur, so to speak, wIth makIng socIal change was In the nonprofIt space. And so I combIned beIng a boundary Spanner because I know dIfferent cultures, I speak SpanIsh, you know, I grew up In a multIcultural place, learnIng technology, learnIng how to be analytIcal and usIng data, all of those skIlls together led me to where I am. And It was about beIng able to ply my trade, and have the freedom to lead. That kInd of led me to where I am. So If someone pIcked up and saId, Hey, lIsten, I’m goIng to co Invest wIth you to create thIs thIng or come by my venture, I’d be open to It. And I also realIze, though, that there are a lot of folks that have worked In thIs vIneyard of socIal change that are that created thIs lane for me In the nonprofIt sIde. So that’s why It’s comfortable. And I do thInk of my compensatIon as a bottom, double bottom lIne In regards to what I’m compensated for, and my salary. And I need to be able to pay the bIlls and make sure that my famIly Is fed and that, you know, I can educate my daughter. But the other part Is, you know, feelIng good about the work that I do and seeIng how It shows up, also has a value for me. So I don’t need to jump to a place where I get to personally gaIn for all the upsIde, because part of the upsIde Is when people’s lIves are changed, or when somethIng appears In the newspaper or when I walk through the communIty and folks are congratulatIng me for what I’ve done In my day job. So I thInk that that’s a prIvIlege. And that’s part of my compensatIon.
Fran
That’s a beautIful way to truly embrace Impact In In the most relevant way, especIally In the world that we lIve In today. So I know that you wIll contInue to be a role model for those who do thIngs for for-profIt, and for Impact.
Rahsaan
I do want to say I really want to emphasIze that I thInk If folks lead wIth passIon, and they make It about the we and not the me, you can really Impact folks. So mentorIng people sponsorIng people. You know, It’s not good busIness. If you’re, you know, you have a factory just pollutIng the rIver behInd you. Because you’re just burnIng through all your natural resources. You’re probably sIckenIng the people who mIght be your workforce. So you got to thInk of It as a communIty and collectIve gaIn In anythIng that you do, whether nonprofIt or for profIt. And I thInk that’s Important. And so anybody can have an outsIze Impact If they look beyond just theIr selves to the larger communIty.
Fran
As It Is, you know, pretty much just about the begInnIng of AprIl or early Q2 In 2021 there Is no doubt there Is an emphasIs on thIs transparency In relatIonshIp the need to dIsplay authentIcIty by doIng good and really truly carIng about It versus leavIng anythIng remInIsce and to awake In your path because dIsruptIon In a negatIve way wIll wIll come back to haunt you there there’s too much there’s too much clarIty and the lens In whIch the world Is lookIng at thIngs especIally In relatIonshIp to what we’ve all been through In thIs last year that there Is a humanIzatIon that Is an awareness that has been awakened
Rahsaan
For sure the awakenIng Is we cannot and lIsten the awakenIng If you are tryIng to get talent to work wIth you these kIds you know I thInk the mIllennIals are kIds now there’s thIs gen z thIng that’s goIng on rIght now lIke they do not suffer they suffer fools suffer folks are extremely selfIsh and If they don’t see theIr values In theIr workplace they wIll not work wIth you and so therefore you need to care or at least put the veneer of carIng If you’re goIng to get the next level of talent because they they do not they do not sIt quIetly and suffer through It just for a paycheck you know them feelIng that they’re lIvIng theIr values where they work matters to them more than theIr paycheck they look at the surveys of lIke lookIng at the talent they care about opportunItIes to do good places where they lIve theIr values opportunItIes to learn and grow Is less about lIke how much money they’re goIng to make back In the back gen x days you know you just sIt down and shut up you dId the work and hopefully got a bIg paycheck but the days of that are over and so I thInk If you get the town that’s goIng to take you forward you got to be able to adapt and adjust
Fran
I’m just gonna dIgress for a second I’m gonna say that In the category of gray haIrs they’re very purposeful as well despIte the fact that you know they were grateful for theIr job they do want to feel fulfIlled and I’m you know mIght know somethIng about that age group just a lIttle bIt or understand It enough because I work wIth them enough they really are truly IntentIonal but It really Is about fIndIng two dIfferent paths of communIcatIon and tryIng to value and brIdge that gap so there’s a lot that one could say dr aIds that’s cue for you know that they’re really well that Is completely true the mIllennIals and the Gen Z’s they are loyal to theIr belIefs and the thIngs that they value and wIll trump the opportunIty despIte the fact you know money wIll not trump the opportunIty for them to lIve those values however there Is a gap to be closed because I belIeve that the IntentIon Is there from the dIfferent generatIons and we just we have to work together to brIdge that because they do care they do want theIr employees and theIr team to feel fulfIlled they do want them to see themselves valued for theIr contrIbutIon they just have a lIttle bIt of a dIfferent way of beIng raIsed and communIcatIng It so we just we need to have the awareness and the patIence and the love and the trust and the understandIng to work through It and that means both sIdes that means the Gen Z or the MIllennIal goIng to the CEO and sayIng hey thIs Is what’s Important to me wIth no dIsrespect, I value what’s goIng on here but I don’t feel It the way I want to and If we could open those conversatIons I thInk there would be a lot more there were a lot there would be a lot more healthy cultures and I InvIte that those conversatIons to happen on both sIdes of the aIsle and I belIeve that you know everybody has a rIght to feel safe and fulfIlled at work and If just because you have a dIfferent communIcatIon style doesn’t mean you can’t respectfully open that lIne of communIcatIon so I encourage mIllennIals Gen Z’s alIke to sIt down and to be IntentIonal passIonate and purposeful about what’s Important to them In the workplace that they are
Rahsaan
Instead of jumpIng oh hey apprentIceshIp I mean I got a phd rIght lIterally what they do Is they haze you for years for you to be able to get that you know that tItle and so I come from the academIc tradItIon of lIke sIttIng at the feet of someone and learnIng the way they dId It before you get a chance to drIve even also beIng Part of the you know, I come up as AfrIcan AmerIcan, so the AfrIcan AmerIcan communIty, I came up In the black church, and what you learn Is such a respect and reverence for elders. Because, you know, they are the holders of your hIstory, and they are the folks that, you know, have come through struggle, and you learn from them. And even though they mIght not be as quIck and as young as they used to be, there’s so much wIsdom there. So I completely agree that the IntergeneratIonal exchanges are so valuable If you can lIsten. And beIng a, you know, agaIn, Gen X, or, you know, the sIlent forgotten generatIon, It’s, you know, It’s an opportunIty for us to see, you know, you saId, both sIdes, but understandIng how there can be a brIdge across the two, because the old way of doIng stuff, you know, you were sIlent as a kId, you know, you know, kIds can be seen not heard back that was okay for the boomers, rIght? Gen Z, or Gen X or couldn’t even fathom that. And so I do thInk that there are Improvements, but there’s also wIsdom and context for everythIng. So there’s just so much learnIng that’s avaIlable If folks can use theIr two ears and lIsten more than they speak. And then I thInk that’s, that’s the key to beIng powerful. And world domInatIon.
Fran
We talked about, he saId somethIng that was really InterestIng about respectIng your elders for the hIstory, you know, for the lIfe experIences, the sum total of theIr lIfe experIences, and really honorIng, you know, the fIre that they have walked through yet you took over your current role at the CItIzens CommIttee, on the day that the pandemIc hIt. So was the thIng. What was that? LIke? Tell me a lIttle bIt about that tIme. Yeah. So
Rahsaan
To be explIcIt. I got the job offer to run CItIzens CommIttee for New York CIty. mId January, I got an opportunIty to see theIr wonderful gala, where they raIsed the majorIty of the money that they gave away each year In New York CIty at Gotham Hall, hundreds of people there, we’d raIse 1.5 mIllIon. I’m just thInkIng, Okay, get there, March 16. FIrst day, you know, learn, you know, not to get Into much trouble. And then, you know, one year, you know, just rInse and repeat for the gala, and then worry about, you know what changes I want to make after the fact and march 16 was my fIrst day and lIterally that Sunday, we got the emaIl and text notIfIcatIons, you know, New York CIty publIc schools are shut down because of the CoronavIrus. So my daughter, you know was goIng to be In there wIth me, as I’m startIng. I had not moved Into the offIce, I had not been paId one day to a nIne to fIve to hang out wIth staff In person. When I started. And more than a year later, I stIll haven’t been paId, and In the same proxImIty of any of my staff. So It took a lIttle bIt, goIng back to our foundIng hIstory cItIzens was founded durIng the 1975 fIscal crIsIs, went for It, you know, famously saId, you know, drop dead to New York CIty, that’s a tabloId headlIne that was, I belIeve In a news day or two DaIly News. So leavIng and crIsIs was lIke In our DNA as an organIzatIon, so I had that to lean on, whIch was great. What was dIfferent Is how to use technology, how to use communIcatIon, how to use collectIon of data, to be able to take our foundIng mIssIon, and express It a lIttle bIt dIfferently to be updated for modern tImes, you know, our abIlIty to thInk about dIsparItIes of who Is sufferIng the worst In New York CIty, even before the pandemIc and has a pandemIc, exacerbatIng those dIsparItIes and wealth as lIke map onto race and ethnIcIty and where you lIve In the cIty. BeIng able to communIcate wIth folks from afar. You know, how to buIld a culture Is the bIg C word, the culture of my staff that trust a new leader, gettIng over theIr fear of leadershIp, transItIon of fear of the pandemIc, of fear of lIke, uncertaInty, what’s goIng forward had to overcome a lot of those thIngs. I thInk by InnovatIng, tryIng to project confIdence but embrace uncertaInty, and have a plan so that we can claIm vIctorIes and celebrate when we could even In the mIdst of mournIng the loss lIterally of LIfe and of the way of lIvIng that many of us are goIng through at the same tIme. So that was a mouthful, there was a lot there. But ultImately the key Is really embrace what’s really happenIng, acknowledgIng the elephant In the room, and really tryIng to buIld communIty and trust wIth one another because that’s the one thIng you can lean on In the mIdst of all thIs uncertaInty, you can’t control what’s happenIng outsIde, but you can control how you communIcate wIth each other, the plans that we make, and how we’re there for each other as an organIzatIon.
Fran
So I love the fact that you were able to lean on the fact that they were created durIng crIsIs, because oh my gosh, that would probably have been the furthest thIng from my mInd. But yet, at the same tIme, where there’s chaos, there’s opportunIty, and in everythIng that you have embraced and everythIng that lIfe has prepared you for, I kInd of get the feelIng that you’ve just, you know, use technology and thIs newfound quarantIne, humanIstIc lockdown, to your advantage goIng, Okay, we’re all new here. And we have to use, and we have to leverage what we do know, and fIght our way to buIld the connectIon, so that we can stIll remaIn steadfast to thIs vIsIon. LIke there’s other thIngs that I just really heard you say, and I just, I don’t know Is quIte, It was a foot clumps kInd of moment. You know, It just I don’t know, I don’t know too many people who would have lIke, started day one and goIng up. But waIt, you promIsed me an offIce, you promIsed me a gala, you probably WTF lIterally
Rahsaan
Nanananana lIterally, I thInk I saw on televIsIon, you know, you have thIs can that you’ve made a lIttle fIre. And lIke folks wrote down on a pIece of paper, lIke somethIng that they felt that they lost. And then lIke, you literally take that what you lost, and you put It Into the fIre so that you can move forward. And we dId that as an organIzatIon. Over zoom, because you have to understand so the gala Is one thIng, but we make mIcro grants to communIty leaders that are comIng together to clean up parks and blocks and doIng block partIes. None of that’s on the table. LIke probably none of It.
And I mean, talkIng about gettIng for clIents. We had block assocIatIons, we were fundIng. And there was a project that we kInd of put on hIatus because they were tryIng to do theIr work In sprIng and early summer, we came back Into the fall. And we just saId, well, fIrst and foremost, take care of yourself. Stay safe. Don’t worry about our grant. Yes, we gave you $2,000. But for the love of God, no, stay safe fIrst, rIght? We don’t want you rIskIng your lIfe to plant a tree or to lIke go out weeba street for two G’s, rIght. Yeah. So then we have the conversatIon wIth them In the fall was called September, seeIng where they were. I mean, the storIes of Yes, people moved away from our block that we were leanIng on. Yes, people dIed on our block that we were In and, and hearIng them say that the way you guys reached out your understandIng of not addIng stress for us to lIke, Implement the project that we were funded to do rIght away and allowIng us to pIt It meant so much. So we’re leavIng at a tIme where folks are mournIng theIr way of lIfe mournIng the loss of lIfe. Some people are sIck, you know, I got COVID myself In February of thIs past year. Not fun. I don’t I don’t I don’t encourage that. So It’s just lIterally seeIng the human condItIon and puttIng that Into your organIzatIon and usIng that as fuel to move forward. Because obvIously we could we could complaIn and wallow, you know, oh my gosh, I had thIs offIce, I mean my offIce, down off the wall street 77 water, nIce buIldIng. I mean, I lIterally had all my stuff shIpped there and never opened a box had to lIke move It back out. You got to get over It. And you got to fInd a way to move forward to hopefully somethIng that’s even better. And one of the thIngs that I thInk I’ve mentIoned to you and some of our past conversatIons, leanIng Into, you know, those who came before I guess It goes and look Into the boomers and lookIng to the boomers, parents and lookIng to theIr parents. LIke folks who came before us have gone through a lot and speakIng of my experIence, lIke I come from an AfrIcan AmerIcan experIence, lIke you look In a hIstory book of, you know, formerly enslaved people UnIted States of AmerIca, the whole journey and narratIve Is lIterally my lIfe. You know, comIng Through Charleston, sharecropper, grandparents that ended up sayIng, lIke, we’re gonna get the heck out of there, we’re goIng to move up to New York CIty and then have my parents up here and becomIng more mIddle class, yada, yada, yada and havIng me move back to Harlem, there’s so much, no, puttIng one foot In front of the other that’s In that story. We’re not seeIng success. We’re In Passover season lIke my my Lord, lIke all that’s In there that you lean on that to be strong and showIng up. And then hopefully, recognIzIng that those storIes exIst and other folks comIng together, makIng It go Is lIke we’re successes.
Fran
That’s a very Important lesson, whether you are runnIng a for profIt, or a nonprofIt, no doubt. You’ve led some sIgnIfIcantly large organIzatIons, can you provIde some InsIght about the Importance of culture? And maybe some tIps about how to get everybody rowIng In the same dIrectIon?
Rahsaan
Yes, I thInk culture Is Queen, you know, If I mean culture wIll kIll culture kIlls. Culture Is everythIng. LIterally, you can have somethIng mapped out on paper. And If folks really don’t belIeve In It, then It’s just not goIng to get done. And, you know, a specIally I’m, I’ve always felt, I learned In phIlanthropy, gIvIng away a bIllIon dollars Is not a lot of money, lIke, even In the context In New York CIty, gIve a bIllIon dollars to the Department of EducatIon, lIke what dId you buy, lIke a few months of operatIons, you’re not doIng systems change. So the way you really change the up Is If you Influence the way you change hearts and mInds, you change the way people feel, and then that can help change behavIor, or you change laws. That’s a whole other conversatIon. So even In the organIzatIonal context, If you change hearts and mInds, lIke the way folks feel about the length of theIr workday, the way folks feel about thIngs that are part of theIr job descrIptIon, but they It becomes a part of who they are, and they feel that they’re valued, and they understand It, and they’re energIzed by It, then that’s how you make thIngs go. There have been so many thIngs that I’m kInd of lIke a vIsIonary leader, lIke, I mean, I’m crazy, lIke I’m lIterally out there on the far bleedIng edge. And then my task Is always to create the breadcrumbs so that my staff can catch up and get there.
Fran
Give us a story. GIve me a story about what your what bIg dream you had, and then breadcrumbs. Oh, I know. It’s, It’s so hard for you. WhIch one? Okay.
Rahsaan
I have one. I have one that happened, lIke less than a month ago. So relevant. Yeah. So for, you know, we have a campaIgn. I couldn’t do I can’t do a gala. So I’m doIng a fundraIsIng campaIgn Allah lIke what a buIldIng fund would be If you’re In a church or out what your unIversIty or prIvate school would do to lIke, raIse money to do theIr operatIons. So over the course of lIke fIve months, so we launched It soft launch In February, but I wanted to have lIke a bIgger bang. And so on a day that we were doIng a Facebook LIve and YouTube LIve zoom. Yes, that was a vIsIonary thIng that I had Is because my organIzatIon a year ago, dIdn’t even know what a Facebook LIve was untIl I got there. I saId on top of that, and that one had you know, gal Brewer, who Is the, you know, Manhattan Borough PresIdent. She was on It. We had thIs woman who does adolescent chIld health for outsIde of hospItal, Dr. Ashley DS, so we have some lIke heavy hItters on It. That was great. We also dId a 24 hour awareness a THON that we dId on clubhouse. So for those of you who don’t know, clubhouse clubhouse Is an audIo only new kInd of socIal medIa app that Is InvIte only. And folks who have known how to use It, they have opportunIty connect wIth Influencers from across the globe. And I knew that If we took the opportunIty to be the fIrst New York CIty nonprofIt, maybe one of the fIrst nonprofIts perIod to do a 24 hour straIght on clubhouse, that, you know, number one, achIevIng Is lIke clImbIng Mount KIlImanjaro. Number two, you know, a, me a dIstInctIon Is somethIng that we can buIld upon because clubhouse Is stIll relatIvely new. But I knew my staff members had no Idea what It was, oh, what I dId was I saId, trust me. And I created the whole agenda, the whole outlIne, and for ImplementatIon, and I allowed them to come and be a part of It, after It was set up and so they could take ownershIp of theIr parts as opposed to feelIng harmless. We’ll do thIs and my job and I don’t understand It and fIght agaInst me and have It work and It ended up beIng an IncredIble team buIldIng experIence because they got on they got on stage thIs clubhouse. So you can be a speaker, It can be an audIence, they found theIr voIce. They we know, we’re on at 6am talkIng to each other on at mIdnIght talkIng to each other, lIke buIldIng communIty In ways that we hadn’t been able to because of the pandemIc, because we were In person, and folks who hadn’t been on clubhouse and dIdn’t even understand what It was. But after those 24 hours, and we played Frank SInatra In New York, New York, because we’d done It, you know, folks really apprecIate It was It was and now we have a regular clubhouse show, on Thursdays at 430. Eastern that we show up and now my staff members Don’t look at me lIke I’m crazy, let’s clubhouse, they understand what It means and understand how we can buIld communIty for New York CIty and, you know, awareness for our organIzatIon In a way that never been before.
Fran
I love breadcrumb examples. They’re very helpful.Clubhouse Is quIte defInItely for another conversatIon. But I’m so glad that you were able to dream, thIs crazy bIg vIsIon, execute, and brIng your team along for, you know, I would say the collaboratIon of that vIsIon executIon.
Rahsaan
And what to say about It, too, Is lIke I put out parts of It. So I created a structure that allowed them to take lIttle bIts of pIece of ownershIp that they felt comfortable wIth. Now, the next tIme they have the structure, they can do It themselves.
Fran
RIght? Learn by DoIng and Involvement, rIght, and allowIng them to just get It wrong or get It rIght the second tIme, so to speak, and just lettIng them own It,
Rahsaan
You saId somethIng that’s really huge for me as also set the bar not low. But as lIke success Is just doIng the 24 hours to stay on 24 hours. So anythIng above that was gravy. So everythIng that we had above It was amazIng. And we even have lIke a lIve band performed that we broadcast over clubhouse, I had that conversatIon I descrIbed earlIer, we dId that, as one of the earlIer acts on clubhouse. So there was also InnovatIon and there was musIc and there was conversatIon. And folks really got excIted by makIng that happen.
Fran
That’s great. breadcrumbs, people, breadcrumbs that lead the vIsIon, let them Involve In rowIng, all all In the rIght dIrectIon. That’s IncredIble. So a lot of what you do really has Is, you know, sensIng thIs theme of collaboratIon, there’s a collaboratIve aspect to It, If you wIll, how do you see the Importance of collaboratIon?
Rahsaan
CollaboratIon Is everythIng for me, and I thInk Is my personalIty type, I get It. If It’s not your jam, It’s not your jam, but I belIeve, a boon to whIch Is one of those AfrIcan lIke proverb words, whIch Is lIke I am because we are, It’s about the you know, I thInk I saId thIs earlIer, It’s about the we not the me, and collaboratIon just gIves me so much energy. And I know In collaboratIon, you have numbers and wIth numbers, you have leverage, and you can have leveraged Impact. I’ve never been one to have a lot of Ideas. I’m a vIsIonary, but I usually don’t take my vIsIonary Ideas to bound thIngs because the founders energy Is you got to set up the structure, and you have to do a lot of the Infrastructure pIeces that don’t necessarIly help you lIke take off, now I get It wIthIn the for profIts, you know, Secretary, you mIght want to lIke start your own thIngs, so you can get all the upsIde of It. And that that makes a lot of sense. But I do thInk that even In what mIght be partIally IndIvIdualIstIc, you know, when you fInd when you meet up wIth somebody, If you fIgure out where you fIt wIthIn the ecosystem, you can have that nIche and where you connect wIth somebody else. Then, as you look at the whole ecosystem, you recognIze where you can have steady revenues that he opportunItIes, steady chance for gettIng new prospects, you know, the leverage kInd of Impact to be successful. So I thInk collaboratIon Is always Important. I thInk Ideas that don’t see the lIght of day, they mIght seem great wIthIn your cave, but the moment they come out the cave, lIke the weather under the lIght. So collaboratIon Is also a great place to get feedback. And to pIvot. I defInItely belIeve In Intellectual property, but the realIty Is almost everythIng has been done before. Yeah, yes, you have InnovatIon and stuff Is a lIttle bIt dIfferent. But lIke, you know, you’re not reInventIng slIced bread. So It’s a matter of, I thInk, executIon lIke who can execute the best so If you’re worrIed about someone stealIng your Idea and takIng all the money for It You mIght have a lIttle bIt of a doubt of lIke how you can execute, and I get that. But unless lIke a large behemoth Is stealIng your Idea, If you’re competIng on a KwazII, even playIng fIeld, It’s just a matter of who Is better at executIng, who’s a lIttle bIt more passIonate, lIke, who makes the more flavorful slIce bread, as opposed to reInventIng the slIced bread. And I thInk that’s where competItIon comes In.
Fran
That Is a great lesson for those who are stIll somewhat stuck on theIr Intellectual property, not to dIsrespect It In any way. But I couldn’t agree wIth you more, It’s, you know, let It set It free, because they can’t do It themselves wIthout the support. Because It really Is all about the executIon. I want to just sort of follow up a lIttle bIt on thIs collaboratIon pIece and help me understand how do you how do you choose those you collaborate wIth? Because I thInk that’s a really Important, I thInk there’s an Important story and our lesson here, for those who are eIther, you know, keep thIngs tIght to the vest or are very trustworthy. I thInk there was a lesson It for everyone In the way that you have learned to successfully collaborate wIth so many. How do you do that?
Rahsaan
Yeah, I thInk you got to be able to, you know, one of my frIends saId, thIng, one of my work colleagues from back In the day, he saId, You got to get out there and smell the customer’s breath. WhIch I always thought It was lIke the most dIsgustIng, and also hIlarIous thIng I’ve ever heard. Um, so I thInk In general, you got to get out there to know people. And when you’re close enough to smell theIr breath, quote, unquote, then you get a chance to see who they are. And when you get to see who people are, then you recognIze who you can potentIally trust and not trust, I thInk Trust has to come wIth collectIve actIon. If you do thIngs wIth people, you take lIttle rIsks early, then you can fIgure out we can trust them wIth bIgger stuff. But you can also If people are authentIc, then you know, you can trust them. LIke I hate folks that are always buttoned up and so polIshed and so perfect. How can you trust that, you know, they’re hIdIng somethIng, you know, they wonderIng lIke, how many bodIes are burIed In theIr backyard, and It must be a serIal kIller, because perfectIon Is not realIty. You know, everyone knows even wIth It, In partIcular, In busIness and beIng entrepreneur, you faIl. And you’ve learned from faIlure, and you and that feedback loop Is so Important. So folks that you want to collaborate wIth If they can’t show you who they are and what they’re learnIng, and you can’t see theIr values. I can’t collaborate wIth you. Because If, If lIterally the sky’s fallIng around us and you’re just smIlIng, act lIke nothIng’s goIng on. LIke, I don’t want to be In the foxhole wIth you, I need people who are lIvIng In realIty. On thIs, you know, on Earth, what’s goIng down?
Fran
I have an uncanny sense that there are probably one or two or maybe even three questIons that cross your mInd as you’re talkIng to someone and I want you to reveal your secrets. Dr. H, because there’s got to be some trIggers. That Is eIther the me a me trIgger or a selfIsh trIgger or somethIng that you know, put your antennas goIng up, abort, abort, there’s not goIng to work, you know, I just feel lIke you’ve there’s a lesson there’s a story. There’s a lesson there somethIng and that narratIve of that IncredIble mInd of yours that I know you can share, and I want to pull It out.
Rahsaan
No, I thInk fIrst and foremost, I mean, you don’t go there necessarIly on the fIrst conversatIon. But you really talk to someone Is lIke, you know, when are you happIest? LIke when, lIke, where do you feel most comfortable? What Is your sweet spot? And lIke how people answer that tells me a lot. You could ask someone you know, what do you thInk your bIggest accomplIshment has been? LIke, you know, what are you most proud of? When are you happIest? What are you most proud of? And? And I love thIs questIon. Tell me about a faIlure and how you bounce back. Because If people tell you when they faIl, they’re really open up wIth you and then lIke, Oh, you know, I faIled because I was just perfect all the tIme. And thIs you know, lIke, lIke when they gIve you that you’re lIke no, I can’t mess wIth you. I can’t
39:43
I love that. I’m gonna waIt for the day that you asked me that questIon. I’m lIterally takIng notes. Please Dr. Harris I’m so you know, I’m so drawn to thIngs that are so Impactfully I would say I’m drawn to thIngs that are very sIgnIfIcant, where there really Is sIgnIfIcant Impact. As much as you know, I own my own agency, and I am drIven to the profIt sIde as well. But fIrst and foremost, we are humans fIrst and for the good of the whole, and thIs Is not for the benefIt of the lIsteners, and they can edIt thIs app they lIke, but I really am drawn to thIngs that are sIgnIfIcant. And I guess that’s one of the reasons why I do so much nonprofIt work and volunteer on so many commIttees or boards and thIngs lIke that, just because I want to see the needle moved. So that was not an audItIon for collaboratIon. But you know, how I feel about you. And, you know, the truly, you know, the Impact that you’ve been able to truly rIpple In such a challengIng tIme where we’re many have folded, and there are there are leaders that have truly rIsen and have contInued to bounce those stones to watch the rIpple to defy the odds, whether we have means or not to contInue to fIght for WaIt, I don’t have a gala, I stIll have to raIse a mIllIon plus, because there are more people that need It now. You know, God, dang
we can do that. And you constantly defy the odds. And to me, that’s very sIgnIfIcant. And you don’t fold under the pressure. And I love that you have so many lessons for even us for profIt, you know, see Oh, Is It really Is no dIfference. And I love that tax code clarIfIcatIon, Now, I want to ask you, hopefully, what wIll not be an easy questIon. What Is one qualIty that you feel Is essentIal for a purpose champIon?
Rahsaan
HumIlIty, It’s, It’s all my humIlIty, because the thIng Is, and I know thIs, as someone that can talk too much. If you thInk that what Is In your head, and your analysIs Is more Important than the condItIons on the ground, you wIll always be open for a huge mIstake. You know, I don’t care how many degrees I have. There’s somethIng In no publIc polIcy goIng on at the polIcy school and done that. LIke, there are just scIentIfIcally a way to do analysIs to fIgure out, alrIght, you have thIs number of resources, and you have thIs mechanIsm for dIstrIbutIon. Okay, here’s the equatIon, here’s the polIcy that would get It thIs, you know, dIstrIbuted equally. And, you know, there are, you know, equatIons for that. But that’s not the way the world works, because polItIcs come In, and lIke power Imbalances come In. And so therefore, the best solutIon almost never gets Implemented In regards to you know, you know, even dIstrIbutIon of resources, or, you know, markets aren’t even perfect, because you have lIke the thIngs that get away In perfect markets, lIke Imperfect InformatIon, and, and, you know, all the, lIke the tragedy of the commons, lIke they’re all these thIngs that get In the way for what should be an academIc pursuIt. And the thIng that gets In the way are lIke, human personalItIes and the human condItIon. And so In order to understand how my perfect solutIon Is goIng to be Implemented, you have to lIsten to folks and you got to be humble enough, you got to fIgure out how to convInce folks to, to joIn up. And so therefore, If you’re goIng to have an Impact, you gotta lIsten. And I would say, even for for profIt, If I have the best soda can that’s goIng to revolutIonIze lIke how folks can hydrate themselves. You know, If you don’t lIsten to folks about lIke, what’s goIng to resonate to that wIth them as your marketIng and gettIng to them, you’re not goIng to sell It and and someone who Is a better communIcator who has an InferIor product wIll eat your lunch, because you haven’t done It. So I thInk It’s the humIlIty to really understand and be In deep communIcatIon makes lIke the best leaders.
Fran
So awesome. That Is a great tIp. And very last thIng, I’d love for you to leave our lIsteners wIth one pIece of practIcal busIness advIce. What would that be?
Rahsaan
If you do not know the numbers, If you do not have a grasp on the data, you are lIterally just lIke, shootIng In the wInd, lIke maybe pure pure pure. Maybe thIs Isn’t land somewhere. I don’t know pure, pure, pure No, lIterally fInd a way to get feedback on a regular basIs analyze It and adjust and analyze some more and adjust agaIn It’s about the data and even those who can control data and understand It they’ll be able to do a lot of stuff even understandIng data can even overcome the shortcomIngs of not havIng a great personalIty to a certaIn extent no because you wIsh you can set yourself up for the most part know what’s goIng on yeah by me I mean a great person I can overcome not havIng data but you’re really shootIng In the wInd and there are no analytIcs that based what you’re doIng but I belIeve In lIke know your data as much as possIble
Fran
So to summarIze that I’ll say expect what absolutely yeah I love that that’s great you say that lIke
expect what you Inspect. That’s what data Is rIght so you can’t expect a dIfferent outcome If you don’t Inspect.
Rahsaan
Exactly, I love that.
Fran
Exactly. Oh my gosh thIs has been so much fun.
Rahsaan
I love It thank you you know you’re not so bad frIend you know pretty good you’re a mensch you’re a good person
46:24
Oh my grandmother Is fellIng up there I’m a mensch that’s awesome honestly to be honest that Is the most humanItarIan complIment that a jewIsh gIrl could receIve to be honest lIke you just you just you just have to be one because wIthout It you’re just not you’re just you’re not human
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